Nightwatch: Cardenio by Kate Thornton

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kailhofer
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Re: Nightwatch: Cardenio by Kate Thornton

Post by kailhofer »

Now someone nitpick for me please! Nate, where are you??
<br>I'm at work at the moment... I can't steal that kind of time without catching hell. You'll have to wait until tonight.<br><br>And remember... you asked me for it.<br><br>Nate
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Re: Nightwatch: Cardenio by Kate Thornton

Post by Robert_Moriyama »

Kate already KNOWS what I think of the story, as I had the opportunity to pick a few nits in earlier drafts while gushing praise over the story as a whole. Nate will be hard pressed to find 'flaws' that aren't a matter of taste (re: style) or differences in the ways we Nightwatchers view the main characters. (It's always disconcerting to learn new things about characters you've been working with -- especially if they conflict with something you planned for them ...).<br><br>So neener neener neener, Nate. You'll have to wait 'til next year for another one of mine to deconstruct.<br><br>Robert M.
Last edited by Robert_Moriyama on October 08, 2004, 11:24:53 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nightwatch: Cardenio by Kate Thornton

Post by kailhofer »

It is dubious comfort to know that I'm now the dark corner of the lettercol that writers seem to feel they have to "make it past" on the figurative road to success. <br><br>I think Kate is a very good writer, and I hope she knows this. <br><br>However, as they say in those online writing workshops, if you haven't found anything wrong with a story, look harder. Every story has room for improvement (especially if they're from Robert. ;))<br><br>My review:<br>In which Nightwatch goes visiting and meets some very bad eggs.<br><br>This added some wonderful depth to Stephanie (even if it did make me do re-writes!), and she is now a much more interesting character to work with. <br><br>Professionalism: Grammar, punctuation, and spelling all hunky-dory. Easy to read and understand, for the most part.<br><br>Setting: Interesting setting, but I’m not sure it felt “real” to me. To say they were in a tunnel doesn’t give a good sense of what it was like. In contrast, Jeff’s tunnels last month seemed much more real. All of the senses were not employed in describing the world. There was a good employment of the sense of smell to go with sight & hearing, but taste and touch were absent. Info dumps (of which we’re all guilty) about Shakespeare, the biology of the Cardenio, and the history of Parumani were used in world building to fill in backdrop, instead of letting the reader figure it out as it went.<br><br>Character Development: Stephanie--guilt vs. killer instinct. Early on, we learn that she carries guilt every day over Simon killing Gryphius. This clearly indicates she’s not into murder, even over a “serial scientist” who kidnapped her for experimentation. Yet later, she’s after Celinde with bloodthirsty intent. Sure, her character could be growing in her arc, but I would have recommended changing the guilt part to match later on, or for her to realize she didn’t feel guilty anymore.<br><br>Plot Credibility: In the conflict-resolution model, this story isn’t a story at all (but I enjoyed it anyway). Simon’s character presents the quest for the missing manuscript as his conflict that needs resolution--except he doesn’t resolve it. He gets caught up in the action, and forgets all about finding Shakespeare's Cardenio. He doesn’t pang over it, or choose to give up the search, or even fight the bad guys over it and maybe chooses to lose it to save a friend. Tom is along for the ride. Stephanie’s past is dragged up and she goes medieval on Celinde, but doesn’t appear to have resolved anything for herself, either.<br><br>Dialogue: These characters seemed to all speak in the same voice, and some distinctive speech patterns would have helped. I mean, the first time I read this, I had a hard time keeping Camacho and Vieira separate in my mind. Helpful young St. John didn’t talk like someone from the (1940s? 1950s?). Even a "gee-willakers" would have helped set him off as different.<br><br>Individual Nits (I'll give the beginning of the paragraph & then the nit):<br><br>He looked at his watch The sentence that begins "this one" seems awkward to me, not automatically referring to "arcane endeavors."<br><br>Simon was seated at "he seldom kept" seems to indicate a POV shift in mid-sentence. Prior to this reads as from Tom's perspective, but from here on as from Simon's.<br><br>About Brazil? Yeah, Info dump. Kills the narrative flow.<br><br>Well stuff just doesn't Why does Tom call Simon, his close friend, Dr. Litchfield?<br><br>Stephanie was better at technology From Stephanie's POV, why would she now refer to him as Doctor, too?<br><br>Simon opened the envelope This is confusing. What does Simon pull out. It says it was a fax, but faxes aren't yellowed and can't show yellowed--just black and white.<br><br>Just the usual - recording What does “understory” mean in this context? It's not in my dictionary.<br><br>The damp sweat everyone Intriguing. What is the difference between Canadian and regular khakis?<br><br>Simon winced. He was The briefing identified St. John as 74, now here he's 79.<br><br>How would it get here? How did the NASA guy find out so much about the missing play? He sounds as if he knows all about it and a few paragraphs later seems to know almost nothing about Shakespeare.<br><br>Stephanie tightened the grip The description when she set out didn't include a weapon. (Glad she had one, though.)<br><br>He attacked me! She goes for her long knife, but Stephanie had already knocked it away with the machine gun. How did it get back on her thigh?<br><br>Tom and Stephanie took the tunnel If they could go back in the tunnel, what were the explosions they heard? It sounded as if the shaft was sealed behind them.<br><br>She didn't hesitate for You mean she was wearing it, not that it was on the whole while, right?<br><br>Carlos Vieira's collarbone had A cast for a collarbone? I believe medical treatment for that is a sling, or possibly a high-tech brace that fits over your shoulders, not a cast.<br><br>Lest anyone think I didn't enjoy this story, let me reiterate: I did. <br>It was interesting, and was very much worth reading. I did feel there was room for improvement, and, no, I don't usually get this thorough (it took me 3 hours to re-read & do this). <br><br>I hope Kate's ego can handle any bruising I might have given it--I was nitpicking as ordered, ma'am. But I'm also looking forward to reading your next Nightwatch bit you want my input on, too.<br><br>Nate
Last edited by kailhofer on October 08, 2004, 10:09:15 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nightwatch: Cardenio by Kate Thornton

Post by Robert_Moriyama »

It is dubious comfort to know that I'm now the dark corner of the lettercol that writers seem to feel they have to "make it past" on the figurative road to success.
<br>That's only because Wishbone doesn't comment more. Wishbone could be a consultant for SSI: Short Story Investigation (a show about a team of crack forensic literary deconstructionists) ...<br><br>
I think Kate is a very good writer, and I hope she knows this.

However, as they say in those online writing workshops, if you haven't found anything wrong with a story, look harder. Every story has room for improvement (especially if they're from Robert. ;))
<br>Ex-squeeeze me???<br><br>I are a paragon of litary verchew.<br><br>Kate knew she was a good writer -- she just needed some reassurance after her enforced time off. Soon enough, she'll be as insufferable as me. As I? Whatever.<br><br>
...
Simon opened the envelope  This is confusing. What does Simon pull out. It says it was a fax, but faxes aren't yellowed and can't show yellowed--just black and white.
<br>I wondered about this, too, but neglected to mention it in my pre-publication notes. In Kate's defense, in the bad old days of thermal-transfer fax machines, faxes DID turn yellow and/or grey (until text and paper were nearly the same color) with time, and might even get crumbly around the edges. Hence if the fax was received on a really old machine (the kind you might still find in any badly underfunded institution?), and was more than a few weeks old, it could be as described. On the other hand, by 2010 (more or less), one would think that all such machines would have been retired because it would be nearly impossible to find suitable paper!<br><br>Nate did pounce upon things that I should have noticed, but I ain't no academic when it comes to readin' and writin' -- I read (and write) mostly for enjoyment, and will let a lot of things slide if the overall effect is as good as it is in Cardenio. (This is, by the way, a plea for mercy when my next story appears.)<br><br>Robert M.<br>
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Re: Nightwatch: Cardenio by Kate Thornton

Post by kailhofer »

I are a paragon of litary verchew.
<br>I've noticed. ;)<br><br>
Nate did pounce upon things that I should have noticed, but I ain't no academic when it comes to readin' and writin' -- I read (and write) mostly for enjoyment, and will let a lot of things slide if the overall effect is as good as it is in Cardenio. (This is, by the way, a plea for mercy when my next story appears.)
<br>It probably had less to do with education or attention to detail and more with an obsessive compulsion with not breaking my word. <br><br>When I joined the secret Nightwatch Society (You should see our outfits--just like the Stonecutters on the Simpsons!) I offered to help any of my fellow Nightwatch authors in any way I was able to. Kate asked me for a thorough nitpicking, so I delivered to the best of my abilities. I did as I would for any fellow Nightwatcher who asked for aid or input, before or after publication.<br><br>[Sorry, there's no society. I made that up. :)]<br><br>Nate
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Re: Nightwatch: Cardenio by Kate Thornton

Post by kailhofer »

It's been about a week since anyone has said something about Kate's story, the latest jewel in the Nightwatch collection. <br><br>(Jeff probably needs oxygen. :))<br><br>I'm more critical about Nightwatch than most because I'm writing my own story. I desire to set the bar high, but just because I said something, doesn't make it true.<br><br>I'm sure Kate would love to hear some more opinions, especially by more people who aren't writing Nightwatch. So, anybody out there feel differently, or just want a chance to say I'm crazy?<br><br>Go for it!<br><br>Nate
Last edited by kailhofer on October 18, 2004, 11:43:17 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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