Short Stories -- the nature of ...

Post by **Robert_Moriyama** » July 26, 2004, 09:37:59 AM

Cary Semar and I are having another editorial debate about the latest Al Majius story. He is unhappy with it because too much of it is rehashing of events from previous stories (and I agree with him -- I will be doing a major edit) and thinks that it does not 'stand alone' ('reads like a chapter from a book', or words to that effect). Of course, the Al Majius stories did not start out that way -- they just growed, from what was originally a one-shot idea. Unfortunately, because there is now a central plot (the escalating threat of Aaron Morgenstern, whom Al must deal with because he may be the only one who can), events in past stories are becoming important to understanding current situations. If/when I get around to reworking the series into a single novella/novel, a lot of the rehashing will be eliminated, since the reader will have just read the previous parts (instead of having a gap of a month or more), but in the meantime, I have been trying to explain references so a new reader or occasional reader of the series won't be entirely lost. Gentle (and not-so-gentle) readers, what should I do? In future stories, should I cut out the at-times tedious backstory stuff, and rely on the readers to check out the Materia Magica summaries? Should I see if Jeff Williams will take future installments as parts of a de facto serial, instead of submitting them as short stories (which, as Cary says, really SHOULD be capable of standing alone)? Cary and Jeff? Anybody? Robert M.

Post by **Robert_Moriyama** » July 26, 2004, 01:11:14 PM

Of course, the problem is that *I* know the backstory and characters, so I'm never sure how little explanation is too little for the typical reader. Some of the comments on earlier stories have indicated that people don't know who so-and-so from an earlier story was, but SOME references to past events seem necessary to me (they are significant (and sometimes traumatic) events, from the characters' viewpoint) ... at which point either I provide more explanation, or leave people to look things up in Materia Magica. I'd be more comfortable leaving out most of the explanatory stuff if this WAS a 'serial' instead of a 'series', hence my question on that angle. Robert M. PS I see you have joined me on that lofty 100+-posts plateau. Just think what we would have by now if we had put all that wordage into stories instead!

Post by **kailhofer** » July 26, 2004, 06:17:56 PM

I think a series should have to stand on its own, but how much do you really have to rehash? Al was bad at magic, but now he's good at it. While he was still bad it, he let out all-powerful Morgenstern, who want his 'nads on a platter. Also, there's a bunch of fanatic baldies out to get him & stop his magic business. C'mon. You're a good writer. A few friendly verbal jabs from Githros, and you're rolling... ;) Nate

Post by **Robert_Moriyama** » July 26, 2004, 06:56:20 PM

I think a series should have to stand on its own, but how much do you really have to rehash?
...
Nate

... Well, there's Walachian (vampire) magic, which relates to The Wild, which relates to werewolves AND vampires; there's the fact that Billy Taylor is a werewolf; there's them there Baldies, some of whom are still running around making nuisances of themselves (although none of the Majius Magical Services gang takes them all that seriously anymore) ... In the upcoming (if I can fix it to Cary's satisfaction) story, we see that Billy is a werewolf, and that he can trigger the Change using a dart he carries in a pouch around his neck. I DON'T explain where the dart came from; I guess if anyone is interested, they can look it up in Materia Magica. I just hate to make people do extra work (reading Materia Magica) to 'get' references or figure out how something came to be. (Mind you, even I have to look stuff up in there when I forget some detail or other.) We shall see how people like the backstory- reference- reduced A Matter of Urgency, I guess, and whether I get some 'who the hell is Billy?' and 'how come there's a demon working for Al?' questions. Robert M.

Post by **Robert_Moriyama** » July 26, 2004, 06:58:37 PM

Work this series into a novel already. You've got the talent. It can be your first step in a fabulous career.

-- david j.

Gee -- I'm a little verklempt (or however it's spelled) at your vote of confidence (or impatience). Can I take this as a commitment to pay actual money for a consolidated version of this series? Operators are standing by ... Robert M.

Post by **Robert_Moriyama** » July 26, 2004, 10:31:14 PM

YEEEES! I get to tease Robert for a grammatical mistake!!! GROWED GROWED GROWED

GG

Actually, it wasn't a mistake, it was an allusion to something from children's literature (maybe Peter Rabbit -- I'm not sure). The familiar (to me, at least) phrasing is to say that something is "like Topsy, it just growed". (Now I'll have to see if Google has recovered from its viral overload so I can verify the reference ... damn it.) Perhaps I should have put the partial phrase in quotation marks ... Robert M.

Post by **kailhofer** » July 26, 2004, 10:36:38 PM

... Well, there's Walachian (vampire) magic, which relates to The Wild, which relates to werewolves AND vampires; there's the fact that Billy Taylor is a werewolf; there's them there Baldies, some of whom are still running around making nuisances of themselves (although none of the Majius Magical Services gang takes them all that seriously anymore) ... In the upcoming (if I can fix it to Cary's satisfaction) story, we see that Billy is a werewolf, and that he can trigger the Change using a dart he carries in a pouch around his neck. I DON'T explain where the dart came from; I guess if anyone is interested, they can look it up in Materia Magica.
Robert M.

The simple answer is don't mention anything until you have too, and then don't assume your reader is incapable of putting two and two together. If I read that Billy jabs a dart into his neck and then turns into a werewolf, I'll assume that the dart makes him change. I don't need to know that he was a werewolf to begin with and the dart overrides his control. I just need to know that one character has just become 'otherkin' and that it's going to be an important thing in that situation. I don't need to know the whole 'Wild' thing to know there's Baldies/cultists working against him. As far as the Walachian connection, all someone has to do is smile enough to show their fangs against their pale skin & I think we can put it together that they're a vampire. Reveal it through the little things and you'll do fine. Nate

Post by **Robert_Moriyama** » July 27, 2004, 10:09:33 AM

As it turns out, the phrase 'just growed' comes from Uncle Tom's Cabin (and shows up a lot in descriptions of things that developed without being planned). My assumption that it might be from Peter Rabbit was based on the similarity of the name Topsy to Flopsy and Mopsy, two of Peter Rabbit's siblings ... The following is a transcript of the relevant passage from a short dramatization (recorded on an Edison phonograph wax cylinder!): ST. CLARE: That reminds me, Cousin Ophelia, I've made a purchase for you. Here, Topsy! TOPSY: [laughs] Here I is. OPHELIA: Good gracious! How shiftless! Cousin St. Clare, what on earth can I do with her? ST. CLARE: Why, educate her. Topsy is a fresh-caught specimen. There's missionary work for you. OPHELIA: I never thought of that. Well, I'll do what I can. Topsy, come here! TOPSY: [laughs] OPHELIA: Stand still! How old are you, Topsy? TOPSY: I dunno. OPHELIA: Don't know how old you are! How shiftless! Who was your mother? TOPSY: Mother? Never had none. OPHELIA: No mother! Where were you born? TOPSY: Never was born. 'Spec I just growed. [laughs] *** There you go. Or there you are. (As Buckaroo Banzai says, 'wherever you go, there you are'.) Robert M.

Post by **Robert_Moriyama** » July 27, 2004, 12:51:35 PM

Oh, Robert! So close!
"No matter where you go, there you are."

(I looked it up to be sure, but I had remembered it correctly.)
Dan

I'm sure Buckaroo Banzai himself would say that THAT is neither here nor there ...

Post by **Robert_Moriyama** » July 28, 2004, 09:06:05 AM

It is my fault, not Robert's, that the series turned into a serial. I should have been paying more attention.

Yes, and SHAME ON YOU! You should have read my mind and realized that the second story contained a giant can 'o worms AND a handy can opener. Now we've reached the point where the worms have almost taken over (hence stories that ONLY advance the main plot, without having much in the way of self-contained arcs). Strangely, the thought of impending apocalyptic events has the Majius Magical Services gang a little distracted ...

There will be at least one more thrilling episode, because it is already on my hard-drive. We will have to trust to the integrity of the author that he will not abandon it. From what I have seen of Robert's energy and productivity, I think we can count on it.

One more thrilling episode, and maybe some really boring ones. We shall see. Robert M. P.S. I CAN'T abandon the series because *I* want to see how it turns out.

Post by **Robert_Moriyama** » July 28, 2004, 12:33:46 PM

I suppose there are what, three series this could be a problem for ... Mare Inebrium, Al , and your choice of a third.

What if y'all just made a web area that listed all the stories? Then you wouldn't have to rehash...
Readers could just drill through and/or revisit stories as it suits them.

-TaoPhoenix

I DO have a webpage that lists and provides synopses (some of which are too damn long) for all the Al Majius stories, with links to their Aphelion appearances. This page also provides brief notes on characters and institutions that play recurring roles in the stories. The URL for this page appears in the Author's Note at the beginning of most of the stories. I just HATE making people do homework in order to understand what is happening or what the main characters are talking about. The Mare Inebrium, of course, has the Timeline and Starter Kit for anyone who really wants to understand who is who and what is what. But it does NOT have that overarching plot spanning all the stories; while events in any given story may use characters or other elements from past stories, you generally don't NEED to know all (or much of anything aside from what is shown in the story itself) about them. The Majius stories have a continuing thread of Al and now the College working to find a way to handle Morgenstern, with a diminishing side plot regarding the Baldies and their almost-as-deluded leadership. The rather unique qualities of some of the characters (Billy is Janine's cousin and childhood protector -- who happens to be a werewolf, but who can now shapeshift at will using a device created as a weapon by the Baldies; Githros is a demon, now free, formerly bound to serve Al, formerly tiny, now usually two meters tall; Janine is a former Homecoming Queen, has no magical powers, but is very adept with a pre-charged 'blasting wand'; etc.) are what makes me want to overexplain and rehash (as I just did here!). I suppose I should try to NOT explain things (per the old adage that the reader doesn't need to KNOW the particle physics behind a 'blaster'; they just need to know that it is a weapon, and does a fair bit of damage when it hits you), or at least keep the explanations to a minimum. Maybe if there was a 12-step program for explainaholics ... Robert M.

Post by **Robert_Moriyama** » July 29, 2004, 10:24:24 PM

Not trying to be picky or cause an argument, but wouldn't this rule also apply to the Nightwatch series?

Kevin

Nightwatch is more like the Mare series -- I don't think the stories will *necessarily* appear in chronological sequence. Also, as of this point in the series's development, there is no uberplot -- each entry is a self-contained adventure. This is not to say that characters in stories that ARE definitely in some particular chronological sequence will not mention or show the effects of events in 'earlier' stories ... Jeff, do you even have a 'timeline' in mind that puts the stories assigned / written so far in a particular order? Aside from broad generalities -- Story Y must occur some time after Story X because Story X introduced the doohickey that is used (or abused) in Story Y, or Story Q must come before Story R because Joe Blow is in it, and he dies in Story R -- I don't recall seeing anything in the suggested titles / plot outlines that implies a sequence. Robert M.

crb2099 · Post by **crb2099** » July 30, 2004, 02:18:32 PM

Well, Rob, you certainly chose the toughest way to do it. As Cary pointed out, I tried this route, and it didn't come out the way I planned. I think for the Majius stories you just need to more carefully consider how much and which elements of the backstory you need. Not everything will be important in a given episode. It's hard to figure out which is relevant and which isn't. Maybe give each new piece to someone who hasn't read the previous episodes and figure out what he/she gets and doesn't get. (Although, if the series gets too long, you risk running out of friends). Make sure they're SFF fans though, as they're more intuitive and accepting than non-SFF fans. "Dreamers" was meant to a series with the only recurring character being the villian Rothin. But once I got into the head of Del Gato, he took over the story and plot. Because of that, I just couldn't seem to make each story stand alone. My original plan was for Del Gato to die after his second, maybe third appearance and then give the leading role to yet another character (although the "lead" would always be a facade as Rothin was really the intended focus). References to past episodes were supposed to be few and far between, plants as bonuses for those who had been following along. The accidental introduction of a continuous plot changed the ballgame, and forced Cary to change his anti-perspirant. I never figured out why Dreamers didn't play out like my Stendhal series. There's only five stories finished in this series, and there is a definite progression of character and plot from one to the other, but each manages to stay independent enough of the others. "Blind," which is in the March 03 issue of Aphelion, takes place chronillogically second. I don't know why it works, except that I left out just enough and kept in just enough to make it seem like a one-shot deal. Whatever. -Christian

Aphelion

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