Cosmic Chronicles by Joel Realubit

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doc
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Re: Cosmic Chronicles by Joel Realubit

Post by doc »

unforgibbon wrote:There were also some technical issues, particularly with dialogue, pacing, and descriptive language:

eg (and this are not directly from the story):
"I need to go to the store," he shrugged.
That kind of construction is simply incorrect. Better to go with he said with a shrug.
Stepping in to strongly disagree with the above. It may or may not be ideal, but it's hardly "simply incorrect". (In fact, I find your example worse than the original. You said in five words what he said in two, and less elegantly.)

If not overused, it can make a nice break from He said...she said. monotony. The real question becomes "How does it flow?"

I usually recommend reading the story aloud and noting where the prose feels awkward, and then concentrating on those areas for polish. In every case, it's a judgement call.
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Post by kailhofer »

I have to strongly agree with Rackham and Dan. You can't shrug with your voice. At least, I can't.

I've seen pro editors and slush readers go on and on about this at Baen, I think it was. They hate it. I think a more correct way to say it would be to break the sentence in two: "I need to go to the store." He shrugged.

He shrugged, he cringed, or really any action, can't be said. Not that I can think of off the top of my head, anyway.

Of course, many of those same editors and slush readers insist on only 'he said' or 'he asked', but that's a whole other discussion.

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Post by doc »

*shrug* I still disagree that it's incorrect. No, you cannot shrug with your voice. You can however, shrug while speaking, which is all the notion conveys.

It is, as noted, easy to get carried away with these notions, which isn't good either. As I said earlier, its important to consider the rhythm of the language.

Of course, that's just my opinion.
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Post by doc »

unforgibbon wrote:Yes, I'm with you that rhythm is important. And I believe I see where you're coming from with accepting the idea of shrugging while one is speaking. Of course, people do that and more while having a conversation. However, I see the crux of the matter as being a technical issue rather than whether I like a certain style or not.

I believe, as writers, one of the things we must always strive for is compelling dialogue. If I can achieve that, then I can relegate the "he said" construction to the "background" role of reference point for readers, ie, so they know who's speaking.
I do want to be clear here that I'm not suggesting the construction the author used was necessarily the best. I was merely objecting to the idea that it was "completely incorrect".
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Post by doc »

bottomdweller wrote:"I need to go to the store," he said, shrugging his shoulders for emphasis.
I think of all the various ways that sentence has been presented, that's the most awful. :)

Thinking on it further, I think Nate's idea is the best. It might even work better to reverse their order, as well. (Bear in mind through all of this that I haven't actually read the story in question yet. so I haven't a clue about the cadence and rhythm of the paragraphs before and after)
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Cosmic is too powerful?

Post by Robert_Moriyama »

So was Superman, even when he was essentially Philip Wylie's "Gladiator" in tights. Later, when he could fly and had super-everything, they had to invent weaknesses for him (kryptonite -- and apparently them there rocks must have been swept up in the hyperspace drive field of Kal-El's ship, because how else would they have ended up here in the same geological epoch? -- red sun radiation, magic). Cosmic has no peers in terms of powers -- the bad guys he encounters in this story are just barely able to cause him discomfort. The point of Joel's story was that for a being with that kind of power, it's the petty annoyances that are significant -- needing a special blast-proof chamber just for personal hygiene --

If we wanted the real full-on adult version, we'd have seen what happened when Cosmic went through puberty. (See Larry Niven's "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex"). Presumably, Cosmic went to work for the government in return for a blanket pardon for the horrendous property damage and (probably) multiple accidental and semi-accidental deaths he would have caused (the first time he sneezed, the first time he had an orgasm, the first time his eye-beams manifested). He hasn't had much of a personal life, since he probably killed everyone close to him.

So why isn't he more angst-ridden than Bruce Banner, Peter Parker, and Bruce Wayne put together? My theory is massive doses of antidepressants. REALLY massive. Billions of regular doses. Several pharmaceutical firms would be required to keep up with his needs -- anyone who knew which ones could be very, very rich.

And anyway, wasn't the ending kinda fun? Being incredibly fast is no help if you don't know which way to go...

RM
You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club.

Jack London (1876-1916)
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