Hey, NATE! And the rest of youse guys!

Tell us what you thought of the January 2007 issue!

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Robert_Moriyama
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Hey, NATE! And the rest of youse guys!

Post by Robert_Moriyama »

To quote Dr. Frankenstein, "IT'S ALIVE! IT'S ALIVE!"

So comment on something, already, so we'll feel motivated to actually put out a February issue sometime in February. Of this year. Probably.

Robert M.
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Re: Hey, NATE! And the rest of youse guys!

Post by kailhofer »

To quote Dr. Frankenstein, "IT'S ALIVE! IT'S ALIVE!"

So comment on something, already, so we'll feel motivated to actually put out a February issue sometime in February. Of this year. Probably.

Robert M.
I thought you just said we were supposed to express our displeasure by ignoring things. :)

I've got a full workday, then my daughter's band concert, so I won't be able to rip into... er, critique Bill's story until around 10 (central) tonight. :)

Nate
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Re: Hey, NATE! And the rest of youse guys!

Post by Robert_Moriyama »

Let's see the goods.  I need a Jan/Feb story before I can comment on it.


-- david j.
Er, IT'S ALIVE! If you go to http://www.aphelion-webzine.com , you'll see a new cover (which, for a change, doesn't name any of the authors); http://www.aphelion-webzine.com/index2.htm takes you to the usual index page. (You might have to force a refresh by clicking on the browser's reload button or hitting CTRL-R, if you are still seeing the November issue.)

Robert M.
(I figured when Rob or Dan created the 'January 2007' folder, it meant that the issue had gone live, and I was (alert the press!) right.)

[highlight]****WHAT THE???? I SWEAR THE NEW ISSUE WAS UP WHEN I CREATED THIS TOPIC!!!!**** Oh, look ... it's back ...[/highlight]
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Re: Hey, NATE! And the rest of youse guys!

Post by kailhofer »

To quote Dr. Frankenstein, "IT'S ALIVE! IT'S ALIVE!"

So comment on something, already, so we'll feel motivated to actually put out a February issue sometime in February. Of this year. Probably.

Robert M.
So why did I have to stay up late to post a message if almost 24 hours later, not even ten people had even viewed the post? (Of the ten views so far, 2 were me. Once to make sure it made sense, and another time when I thought of something to add.)


It may not be popular, but I've got to say I think the discussion is slow because the issues were so late. People were trained to watch for the issue the end of the 1st week of the month. That didn't happen all last year (much if it at all). Now, no one knows when to look for it, so many of them stopped checking for it until it's down to the, what, dozen of us left who actually read or post?

Not exactly easy to create interest if no one is looking.

Aphelion shows every early warning sign of a dying magazine, and has for a long time: First, it's a skipped month her or there. Then it's all the time. Discussion in the forum drops to next to nothing. Interest sags. If it continues to follow the pattern from other Zines, next, the issues get further apart, perhaps quarterly or every six months. Preditors and Editors starts listing horrendous response times. Here, frustrated editors and web gurus start thinking it wasn't ever worth this much work to prep stories since no one read them anyway. Then, it doesn't come out at all. It happens fast, too. Maybe one or two issues in the quarterly or more category. Sure there be messages, "On Hiatus", etc., but they don't come back (or I haven't seen one do so). Before long Ralan will list it as defunct. Maybe some site will mirror the stories for a time, but before long the back issues disappear too. After all, why pay the bill for that forever?

It's sad when that happens to a Zine, but it happens. All over the net.

I don't want it to happen here, but don't know what to do about it besides do the Chicken Little thing and shout about the sky falling. If I grill all the stories the way I used to, will that help? Controversy breeds discussion, but it seems too late. I mean, if no one is there to hear the tree falling, what's the point of knocking it over? To hang out in the woods?

Am I wrong?


Nate
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Re: Hey, NATE! And the rest of youse guys!

Post by Robert_Moriyama »

Nate

I have jokingly said more than once that things are delayed because various of the editorial staff have the temerity to HAVE LIVES. Not only that, but they tend to be complicated lives, or at least lives with complications.

In the past year or so, we've had two or three computer meltdowns, deaths in respective families, a wedding, a couple of industrial blowups (fortunately with no casualties), moves, job changes, ...

You teach public school (which I understand involves many hours of work outside the nominal school day), but Jeff teaches college classes. We (the editorial staff) all have full time jobs (and Dan's often involves downright bizarre overtime schedules and switching between day and night shift at odd intervals).

I'd be more inclined to respect your doom-and-gloom attitude and complaints if you were offering to contribute to the production of the 'zine, but you have said that you're too busy to even read more than a few of the stories, so ...

We're doing the best we can. If we can get a few months when NONE OF US have unusual demands on our time, we'll get back to something resembling a normal schedule, I hope. I will be trying to edit and run more stories every month to burn through some of the backlog (including at least a handful of new pieces IN ADDITION TO some Best of 2006 / Best Ever picks for February) -- might even enlist McCamy Taylor's help now that her health problems have subsided enough to let her read and write more.

If that's not good enough for you, well, we'll be sorry to lose one of our few non-lurkers (i.e., someone who actually posts something so we know that at least some of the material is being read), but we don't have time or energy to hold a wake.

Robert 'I should be reading stuff for February' M.
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Re: Hey, NATE! And the rest of youse guys!

Post by kailhofer »

Nate

I have jokingly said more than once that things are delayed because various of the editorial staff have the temerity to HAVE LIVES. Not only that, but they tend to be complicated lives, or at least lives with complications.

In the past year or so, we've had two or three computer meltdowns, deaths in respective families, a wedding, a couple of industrial blowups (fortunately with no casualties), moves, job changes, ...

You teach public school (which I understand involves many hours of work outside the nominal school day), but Jeff teaches college classes. We (the editorial staff) all have full time jobs (and Dan's often involves downright bizarre overtime schedules and switching between day and night shift at odd intervals).

I'd be more inclined to respect your doom-and-gloom attitude and complaints if you were offering to contribute to the production of the 'zine, but you have said that you're too busy to even read more than a few of the stories, so ...

We're doing the best we can. If we can get a few months when NONE OF US have unusual demands on our time, we'll get back to something resembling a normal schedule, I hope. I will be trying to edit and run more stories every month to burn through some of the backlog (including at least a handful of new pieces IN ADDITION TO some Best of 2006 / Best Ever picks for February) -- might even enlist McCamy Taylor's help now that her health problems have subsided enough to let her read and write more.

If that's not good enough for you, well, we'll be sorry to lose one of our few non-lurkers (i.e., someone who actually posts something so we know that at least some of the material is being read), but we don't have time or energy to hold a wake.

Robert 'I should be reading stuff for February' M.
Ah, so I should be careful not to let the door hit me in the ass on my way out, eh?

First off, let me dispel a misconception before it festers into fact: I'm not a schoolteacher. I studied to be a high-school English teacher, and in fact, met my wife in a 'Composition for Teachers' class. However, I became lead typesetter/designer for a company that produced 3 newspapers a week. It paid a lot better.

Currently, I'm the Estimator and Plant Manager for a printing company, where we produce all or parts of 45 different publications... plus job printing. Some are twice a year, some twice a week, with circulations from 1,100 to 20,000. Some jobs we print, like maps or inserts, are in the half million copy range. I coordinate and administer all that work, as well as keep the employees producing what they're supposed to do and on time. Sometimes we get pdfs supplied to us, and other times we get a stack of handwritten sheets that have to be turned into 10,000 24-page glossy magazines in 2 weeks. Maybe they'll have to mailed out of a half-dozen post offices, too. And all that with less than 20 employees, from the lady at the front desk to the 3 delivery drivers.

I know all about producing magazines with few people. I know all about people having problems or equipment breaking down and still getting work out. I can't run a printing press or a 36" folder, but I fill in for almost anywhere else in the procedure. Over the years, I've been involved with everything from marketing to planning editorial content to circulation. A lot of marketing, circulation, and distribution. We've experienced nearly 20% growth in each of the last two years doing it that way.

That also means I have to coordinate with customers who are using volunteers to write or design their work. I have to. Presses only make money when they're running, and can't wait while some committee debates whether or not to move their logo up or down a quarter inch.


So, when I say that frequency of publication and on-time delivery makes a big damn difference, I'm not pulling that out of thin air. Readers are conditioned to receive their product at a certain time and in a certain way, especially by established publications. And it doesn't make a difference if they are free or not, printed or on-screen.

The ABC evening news here airs at 5:30 p.m. It doesn't cost me anything, yet I enjoy the content (much like Aphelion). Yet if tomorrow ABC decides to start at 5:46, and the next day at 6:10, and maybe the next day at 8:45, how long do you think it would be before no one watches? There are simply too many other places which to receive your enjoyment from to bother with the wait, and anyone would switch channels.

You want to lose your readership? Don't come out on time.


To the next point, I have offered to help in every way except slush reading and putting the stories into web pages. (And although I've never formatted a story into a web page, it's just text into what should be a standing layout. How hard should that part of it be, unless you're hand coding it all every issue?) AND, I offered to do that, too, for flash contest winners. Remember that flash contest I proposed? To increase readership and discussion? Nobody wanted that done.

There are six active persons listed underneath Dan in the staff list. If you as a group are unable to meet deadlines--add staff or fire those who don't want to work. I'm sure a widespread notice for someone who wants the title of assistant editor of a zine on their resume will bring a lot of young, zealous applicants willing to volunteer for free.


If you'd prefer to think of Aphelion as a hobby instead of a creative product that you help produce, even for free, don't bitch when people won't read it or won't comment on it.

Nate
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Re: Hey, NATE! And the rest of youse guys!

Post by Robert_Moriyama »

I find the emphasis you place on 'product' rather disturbing. 'Creative' product sounds like an oxymoron (although there are many creative enterprises that DO manage to stick to a schedule, at least most of the time.) If it didn't cost the volunteer-staffed magazines (or your employer) any money to delay things, they might be less punctual. And I'll bet none of your volunteer-staffed print magazines has people scattered across three countries and even more time zones. We don't have coordination meetings -- it would be tough to set a time when everybody would be awake and available to visit the chatroom.

Maybe YOU should start a zine. I'm sure it would come out on time, every month, if nothing else.

Or, hey, Jeff was sort of supposed to be in charge of cracking the whip to get people to conform to deadlines -- maybe you could take over THAT job (I have never received an e-mail or lettercol Private Message asking where the hell the stories are). No reading of slush required -- just an eye on the calendar and enough time to badger -- er, remind -- people about deadlines. Jeff, Dan -- what do you think? Would it help us to have a calendar-conscious person keeping us on track?

(BTW, howcum it's bitching when I complain ONCE about your complaints? What does that make your complaints (repeated multiple times over the past six months or so)? 'Whingeing'?)

Robert 'I do NOT bitch' (stamps foot and pouts) M.
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Re: Hey, NATE! And the rest of youse guys!

Post by kailhofer »

I find the emphasis you place on 'product' rather disturbing. 'Creative' product sounds like an oxymoron (although there are many creative enterprises that DO manage to stick to a schedule, at least most of the time.) If it didn't cost the volunteer-staffed magazines (or your employer) any money to delay things, they might be less punctual. And I'll bet none of your volunteer-staffed print magazines has people scattered across three countries and even more time zones. We don't have coordination meetings -- it would be tough to set a time when everybody would be awake and available to visit the chatroom.
Well, don't get hung up on the word 'product'. I myself am not a big fan of calling magazines products instead of magazines, but there is a logic to the 'everything is a product' line of reasoning that the suits use.

A sermon or service in a church can be considered a product, one which the parishioners frequently 'donate' to receive, from a certain line of thinking. The ultimate goal of almost every writer is to be paid to write professionally. At that point, your 'creative' work is a product, which consumers buy. At least, the IRS (or whatever the Canadian equivalent) will consider it such. In Aphelion's case, the 'consuming' is reading, for free, but you still vie for their time and attention to get them to do so.
Maybe YOU should start a zine. I'm sure it would come out on time, every month, if nothing else.
It's been discussed. However, Dan has talked about Aphelion costing about $1000 per year to operate. Any extra grand I scratch up puts clothes on my kids' backs or gets set aside with the rest of the pitifully small amount I have for eventual retirement.

Moreover, it would be morally wrong for me to do so. Creation of a new zine would compete in the marketplace for resources against Aphelion. Resources in this case would be the writers who contribute to Aphelion, as well as the attention of the readership. Since Aphelion is what I'm trying to help safeguard, stealing the writers and readers seems a pretty rotten way to do it.
Or, hey, Jeff was sort of supposed to be in charge of cracking the whip to get people to conform to deadlines -- maybe you could take over THAT job (I have never received an e-mail or lettercol Private Message asking where the hell the stories are). No reading of slush required -- just an eye on the calendar and enough time to badger -- er, remind -- people about deadlines. Jeff, Dan -- what do you think? Would it help us to have a calendar-conscious person keeping us on track?
If someone wants me to do that, sure, I can swing it. I do make a living by planning work and not by being everybody's friend. (Though it is pretty friendly at work.) However, I have to say that there seems to be a simple solution: publish whether or not people are ready. If Jeff, hypothetically, doesn't have the serials ready, just put a line in the zine that they were not submitted in time and leave them out that month. If Jeff (again, hypothetically) cares enough about the job, he'll be on time for the next issue. If a person routinely can't hit deadlines, well, then it's pretty obvious who needs to be replaced.

I'd also that add it looks like there is a clear need for someone to be able to do Rob Wynne's bit when he's not able, if there isn't already. From an outsider's perspective, it seemed that this issue was held up by lack of a cover and folder, and not Dan as he himself claimed. If this really was the case, it seems silly to hold up a magazine because the person who makes the cover and a new folder is on vacation. I believe folder creation is easy with Moderator status, according to the help file, and (speaking without knowing the actual process) the cover looks like quick work with some photoshop and web tools, since NASA provides the artwork for free. Everyone knew Bill's part 2 was going to be running, and Robert had his posted by the 22nd, and Iain by the 23rd. That's all the stories to pick names for the cover from, although the cover for this issue works fine without names. I think Dan had his page made (without the updated link to Bill's story) around the same time. Bill's story was there, what, the 3rd?, but not formatted correctly. Public date was a week later, I believe. (Hey, it's not my fault none of these pages are hidden. Anyone can see the next issue if they look in the right place.)

I don't like blame. I'd rather fix a problem than blame someone, but this seems like something that needs fixing. In any small creative organization, everybody has got to be able to double-up on jobs and fill in. If it's true that only Rob can flip the issue, then that's a big weakness. What if he got hit by a bus tomorrow? (While I do actually know a number of bus drivers, they don't seem the type to go that far to make a hit. :))

Nothing personal against Rob, or Dan, for that matter. If I'm wrong, then I apologize completely to both of them, and their families, and shall undertake never to utter such statements ever again.
(BTW, howcum it's bitching when I complain ONCE about your complaints? What does that make your complaints (repeated multiple times over the past six months or so)? 'Whingeing'?)

Robert 'I do NOT bitch' (stamps foot and pouts) M.
I had to look up 'whingeing', but fine, if you want to call it that.

Actually, I was referring to your message complaining that no one had posted and we all should if we wanted an issue to come out in February, and not your distaste for my post.


Nate
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Re: Hey, NATE! And the rest of yours guys!

Post by kailhofer »

Hello All,

First: Please let me say that we absolutely need people like Nate in our readership. He takes (and gives) a lot of time and effort to critiquing our work. More so than anyone else. . .including yours truly. I literally shiver with excitement when I read the headings and Nate is one of those who have chosen to honor me with a post. No kidding.

[snip]

Mea Culpa, Nate. You are the soothsayer to beat all soothsayers. . .but don't forget that it is a thankless task (perhaps except for this brief moment) and also, don't forget what actually happened to Cassandra.

Keep at it,
Bill Wolfe
Well, when not mortified by the idea of dropping dead just before I can win like Stubbs? Stebbins? or never being believed and then raped by Ajax the Lesser (in the case of Cassandra), I feel rather humbled by such praise. Unless you're going to ask me to lend you money, that is. :)

I am hard to please, but if I've gone too far in my criticism is I who should ask the forgiveness of all.


I pledge that I will make a serious effort to provide more of those critiques that are so loved and hated both.

Nate
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Re: Hey, NATE! And the rest of youse guys!

Post by Robert_Moriyama »

... but seriously, it wouldn't hurt if you (Nate) sent reminders (nagging Private Messages?) around the end of each month, rather than in the lettercol (where it embarrasses we procrastinating Mafiosi). You know, on the theory that we SHOULD be putting something online no later than mid-month, barring green meteor showers followed by rampaging triffids.

Also, I seem to be the only one who DEFINITELY receives enough material to put out a good selection every month -- from what Jeff and Iain have said in the past, there are times when their in-baskets are nearly if not entirely empty. So ... if we instituted a policy that we put an issue online NO LATER THAN MID-MONTH, EVERY MONTH (except maybe January, which has always been a month off) with new short story content, a new editorial by Dan or (if necessary) a Guest Ranter (ever written an editorial, Nate?), and OPTIONALLY new poetry and / or serial / novella content, we could get back on track.

Dan, Jeff, Rob, Iain, whaddaya think? There are times (Nightwatch-related, mainly) when the Serials / Novellas content are especially important (to keep up with Jeff's mental map/timeline of the series as a whole), but generally, we COULD get by without, or post content AFTER the cover / editorial / short story content is ready. There has already been one month that I know of when we carried over poetry content from one issue to the next ...

Robert 'I REALLY should be reading stuff for the February issue now' M.
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Re: Hey, NATE! And the rest of youse guys!

Post by kailhofer »

... but seriously, it wouldn't hurt if you (Nate) sent reminders (nagging Private Messages?) around the end of each month, rather than in the lettercol (where it embarrasses we procrastinating Mafiosi). You know, on the theory that we SHOULD be putting something online no later than mid-month, barring green meteor showers followed by rampaging triffids.

Also, I seem to be the only one who DEFINITELY receives enough material to put out a good selection every month -- from what Jeff and Iain have said in the past, there are times when their in-baskets are nearly if not entirely empty. So ... if we instituted a policy that we put an issue online NO LATER THAN MID-MONTH, EVERY MONTH (except maybe January, which has always been a month off) with new short story content, a new editorial by Dan or (if necessary) a Guest Ranter (ever written an editorial, Nate?), and OPTIONALLY new poetry and / or serial / novella content, we could get back on track.

Robert 'I REALLY should be reading stuff for the February issue now' M.
Nagging doesn't work if the issue doesn't omit the wayward part when beyond a set date. Otherwise, it's ignored, and means nothing--especially if its through private messages. At least public ones have the potential to coerce though shame.

An editorial? Heavens, has that been a problem? I haven't written an official editorial since my High School newspaper, but yes, I could probably whip one up when needed.

It sounds like a general call for submissions should be included in editorials whenever stocks are low in a particular area.


Nate
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Re: Hey, NATE! And the rest of youse guys!

Post by kailhofer »

... but seriously, it wouldn't hurt if you (Nate) sent reminders (nagging Private Messages?) around the end of each month...
So, this was never officially said.

Am I supposed to be sending out end of the month wake-up calls?

Nate
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Re: Hey, NATE! And the rest of youse guys!

Post by Robert_Moriyama »

Uh, I bin zick (coff, coff). Also da dog ade my hobewurg. We* are aiming for mid-month, since December/January arrived mid-January(ish), with a gala 10th Anniversary Issue including 'Best of 1997 - 2000' (or so) short story selections AND maybe 10 new short stories.  Dunno what Jeff and Iain are working on (Jeff has been vewwy, vewwy quiet lately), but Iain has said that he could have new poetry ready anytime it's needed.

So ... you can start the 'Where's February? Is it coming out before MARCH?' topic in about a week. With any luck, we will be jolted out of our Seasonal Addictive Disorder (where your attention is captured by casting and other 'stunts' during February (TV ratings) Sweeps) and ACTUALLY POST AN ISSUE WITHIN A WEEK OF WHEN IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE AVAILABLE. Of course, our luck (when we have any) is usually bad ...

(*So far, nobody has said that they CAN'T be ready before then, and Iain has said that he could be ready NOW.)

The March issue will include 'Best of 200x - 2006' short story picks (x being one more than whatever year February's 'Best of' section covered), plus more new material as I strive to reduce the backlog.

Robert 'Would I lie to you?' M.
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